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  Battered Woman's Syndrome

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Author Topic:   Battered Woman's Syndrome
Javier H Armengau
Member

Posts: 23
From:Ohio
Registered: May 2001

posted May 26, 2001 11:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Javier H Armengau   Click Here to Email Javier H Armengau     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Should women be able to rely and use it in their defense when charged with killing their significant others?

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karla
Member

Posts: 42
From:Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted May 26, 2001 11:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for karla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe this should read can men or women rely and use it in their defense. I don't think it's isolated to strictly women anymore. How do others feel about this?

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Javier H Armengau
Member

Posts: 23
From:Ohio
Registered: May 2001

posted May 26, 2001 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Javier H Armengau   Click Here to Email Javier H Armengau     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Decent point...I am interested in the responses to your inquiry...

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patee
Member

Posts: 157
From:Marion Ohio
Registered: Apr 2001

posted May 26, 2001 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for patee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Karla

I have to agree with you. the number of battered men is probably much larger than we could ever imagine since I think men feel ashamed to admit they are being battered.

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Pat

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patee
Member

Posts: 157
From:Marion Ohio
Registered: Apr 2001

posted May 26, 2001 11:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for patee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr Armengau

Is the fact that the battered person could be the 'enabler' ever taken in to prosepective in such a case.?

While I agree that in a large majority of the instances the battered whether it be physical/mental/both loses their self esteem ans believes they are unable to function unless validated by the batterer, or fear for their life if they try to escape, and find no other way out.

But what about the 'enabler'. The person who isn't willing to give up money/possessions/recognition ?

In my opinion, they encourage the battering because they are saying "Buy me and you can beat me".

Shouldn't this be considered in judging the guilt/innocense of a person ?

So the person was beaten on for a few years, then they do away with their spouse, and now have the money/materiallistic things they valued so much and the batter is now out of the picture forever.

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Pat

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karla
Member

Posts: 42
From:Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted May 27, 2001 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for karla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We are talking about physical and/or emotional abuse - right? Some might think that it only applies to physical abuse but I don't necessarily feel that way. It seems that an abuser can be very good and then turn completely around and be very abusive. I do think that alcohol/drugs is a big factor in some of these type of cases. I also believe that low self esteem and fear is why one stays in these kind of relationships. I could elaborate but will only say that yes I think it could possibly be a defense.

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VICTORIA
Member

Posts: 53
From:Marion, Ohio USa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted May 27, 2001 12:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for VICTORIA     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How about the woman who had been batterd so much and one day just snaps and takes the life of her mate while being attack. Would this be considered self defense?

It dosen't matter what she should or shouldn't have done in the past. There are many reasons why women feel trapped with the attackers. The protection is limited to restraing orders. Who will enforce the restraining order's. The abuser knows that he can cause him mate to live in fear.


Why should a woman be forced to give up her life to an abuser? Material things and livelyhood are two seperate issues.

She can go to a shelter for a few day;'s. Does that solve the problem? There is no simple soultion for this.

What about the men who are subject to verbal and mental abuse. Where do they draw the line. What are their option's?

And last but not least, what does this do to the kid's?

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Justice for the Kid's


Victoria

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Javier H Armengau
Member

Posts: 23
From:Ohio
Registered: May 2001

posted May 27, 2001 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Javier H Armengau   Click Here to Email Javier H Armengau     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by patee:
Mr Armengau

Is the fact that the battered person could be the 'enabler' ever taken in to prosepective in such a case.?

While I agree that in a large majority of the instances the battered whether it be physical/mental/both loses their self esteem ans believes they are unable to function unless validated by the batterer, or fear for their life if they try to escape, and find no other way out.

But what about the 'enabler'. The person who isn't willing to give up money/possessions/recognition ?

In my opinion, they encourage the battering because they are saying "Buy me and you can beat me".

Shouldn't this be considered in judging the guilt/innocense of a person ?

So the person was beaten on for a few years, then they do away with their spouse, and now have the money/materiallistic things they valued so much and the batter is now out of the picture forever.


Sorry. enabler or no enabler, no one should be beaten in a relationship, male or female. Each circumstance is different, so it is difficult to answer your question in general. If a woman is being beaten or under a genuine threat if immediate physical harm, she should defend herself. Because she tolerated the beating before, doesn't mean she should continue to tolerate it.

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Goddess of Fairies
Member

Posts: 39
From:Marion, OH, USA
Registered: May 2001

posted May 27, 2001 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Goddess of Fairies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sadly, it sounds as if no one here understands the dynamics of a spousal abuse. It begins slowly and increasess through the years. The mental and emotional games are worse than any hit. Women do not stay because of the money!!!!! The psychological damage takes years to heal. Many abused spouses suffer from Post Tramatic Stress Syndrome...the same thing Viet Nam getting your face shoved into a tuna casserole because it was cold. You forgot to mention the shame, and the degrading, the secrets, and the protection of the children. This is clearly a case of not knowing about something unless you have been there.
I am a very strong, independent woman...but it wasn't always so. I was one of the lucky ones.

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karla
Member

Posts: 42
From:Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted May 27, 2001 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for karla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Goddess of Fairies:
Sadly, it sounds as if no one here understands the dynamics of a spousal abuse. It begins slowly and increasess through the years. The mental and emotional games are worse than any hit. Women do not stay because of the money!!!!! The psychological damage takes years to heal. Many abused spouses suffer from Post Tramatic Stress Syndrome...the same thing Viet Nam getting your face shoved into a tuna casserole because it was cold. You forgot to mention the shame, and the degrading, the secrets, and the protection of the children. This is clearly a case of not knowing about something unless you have been there.
I am a very strong, independent woman...but it wasn't always so. I was one of the lucky ones.

It may not be about not understanding but that it is too painful to relive and/or discuss on a public forum. You put it very well Goddess of Fairies and brought out some key points. Some are lucky but I believe are scared forever.

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Goddess of Fairies
Member

Posts: 39
From:Marion, OH, USA
Registered: May 2001

posted May 27, 2001 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Goddess of Fairies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Karla,I underdstand and agree what with you have posted, but that IS the problem. Battered women DO NOT talk about it, because it is too shameful. They keep the secrets and make excuses. They constantly ask why me?
I only had one doll as a child and she was a plastic doll with nappy hair that I carried everywhere. When I got married, my husband bought me the most beautiful doll I had ever seen. She was a porcelain doll and I kept her on the cedar chest beneath our bed. Once when I was on the phone when he came home from work, he broke her hand off. I waasnot to talk on the phone while he was at work,because all my attention was to go to him. Of course, I would hang up because I didn't want the embarrassment of the person on the other end to know. Other times my husband wouldnt speak to me for days and I never knew what I did wrong, I always felt guilty. Later during the week, he took a hammer and smashed my dolls legs to powder and told me no wonder my parents never gave me a doll brecase I was a rotten woman therefore I must have been a rotten kid. After a while you really do start to believe you must not be good enough.
I think women need to talk about this and realize they are not alone. The more understanding, the more help women can get.

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karla
Member

Posts: 42
From:Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted May 27, 2001 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for karla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GOF
How very, very sad. I remember spending hours making an Italian Cream cake from stratch only to have it slammed on the driveway in front of all of the neighbors. As you know the stories go on and on. That was a long ago relationship that luckily I got out of. I am now treated like gold and very happy. I hope you are too.

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Magnolia
Member

Posts: 89
From:Marion, Ohio USA
Registered: May 2001

posted May 27, 2001 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Magnolia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Ladies,

You have had some very sad events happen to you in your lives. I admire your strength in sharing some of your experiences, getting out of those bad relationships, and moving forward. You are to be commended. I think those horrid things have you given both of you the compassion I witness as you post for others and their problems. Not all possess such compassion as I'm sure you are aware.

With the bad, there is always good also. Your concern for others proves that. I'm not saying without those bad things in your lives that neither of you would have been compassionate, not at all. I do believe that those who have dealt with their own trials and tribulations in a positive manner are more equipped to give of the heart when others are seen who are in pain and in need.

Honestly, with all of the horrid things I have been through, all the fears, all the heartbreaking pain, I feel more good came out of those times than did bad. I have never been the road you two have traveled, but I don't believe anyone anywhere should ever have endure abuse.

I think you two are great!

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Goddess of Fairies
Member

Posts: 39
From:Marion, OH, USA
Registered: May 2001

posted May 27, 2001 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Goddess of Fairies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Magnolia I think think you are great woman! I think most women may have had to experience a bad man in order to appreciate a good one. I haven't found that someone yet, but I have a lot of life yet to live.
Karla, you too are a wonderful person and time is a great healer, isn't it?
There are some really great women on this forum...Women need their knowledge of their own history they need to define themselves as human beings. Never be denied our rights and never be rendered anonymous, censored, interrupted or devalued. Never be denied your equal status and never be enslaved as sexual prey or withheld from your own power.
Women rule! : ) Lots of Love to you Both!

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karla
Member

Posts: 42
From:Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted May 27, 2001 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for karla     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Magnolia and GOF,
Thank you both for the kind words and understanding.

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Javier H Armengau
Member

Posts: 23
From:Ohio
Registered: May 2001

posted May 29, 2001 08:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Javier H Armengau   Click Here to Email Javier H Armengau     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Someone had the courage to post on this topic on my board - thought it may be worth reading for all.
www.proboards.com/boards/index.cgi?&user=jha7law&b=1

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paradox
Member

Posts: 68
From:
Registered: May 2001

posted May 29, 2001 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for paradox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The sad, sad truth of the matter is that for the longest time there was no real help for women who wanted to escape. They had to do it on their own. That's not the whole truth any more. There are places they can go now. The law protects them so very much more now, filing the charges against the abusers themselves, not allowing them to be dropped.

I personally will seek to expand these options to the best of my ability.

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patee
Member

Posts: 157
From:Marion Ohio
Registered: Apr 2001

posted June 01, 2001 07:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for patee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mr. Armengau

Are you saying that being a battered spouse automatically entitles them to kill another person ?

Then is it also acceptable for children to kill their parents who have abused them with beatings/starvation/molestation etc.?

I can think of very few instances that justify MURDER.

That would perhaps be in instances where every available effort had been made to permanently escape the abuser had been the person was still in danger.

Don't ever buy 'Doing It For The Kids'

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Pat

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John C Daniels
Member

Posts: 52
From:marion,ohio,U.S.A
Registered: Apr 2001

posted June 01, 2001 07:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John C Daniels     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by patee:
Mr. Armengau

Are you saying that being a battered spouse automatically entitles them to kill another person ?

Then is it also acceptable for children to kill their parents who have abused them with beatings/starvation/molestation etc.?

I can think of very few instances that justify MURDER.

That would perhaps be in instances where every available effort had been made to permanently escape the abuser had been the person was still in danger.

Don't ever buy 'Doing It For The Kids'


Have you been going to church with "Timmy"?Look in the news NOW about the children who have been "hole up"in thier home since Tuesday...ABUSED?
Should they have turned the guns on thier abuser(s),maybe they would be safe,& warm in foster care instead THEY(the abused)will most likely face charges themselves.statistics say 8 out of 10 children who grow up around abusive relationships end with the child growing to be an abusive adult/abused adult...Is this THIER fault?Or because they CANNOT escape the mental chains should they just commit suicide?After all they are BOUND by abuse.

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paradox
Member

Posts: 68
From:
Registered: May 2001

posted June 01, 2001 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for paradox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you seeking to identify users again, mr. daniels?

So your point is that no one can do anything about the abuse. We as a society and as individuals must simply allow these men and women to abuse their families and pass the legacy down...

Good for you!!! What courage you have!!!

If takes courage to not hurt someone's feelings and tell them they can escape, or at least they have to try...

It takes courage to blame the abuser but do NOTHING to stop them...

It takes courage to tell all that escape doesn't work and they must simply stay...

It takes courage to tell the women that regardless of the help or lack of it they get, that it really isn't their resposibilty to protect themselves and their children...

How glad I am that I, on the other hand, am such a coward...

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Javier H Armengau
Member

Posts: 23
From:Ohio
Registered: May 2001

posted June 01, 2001 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Javier H Armengau   Click Here to Email Javier H Armengau     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by patee:
Mr. Armengau

Are you saying that being a battered spouse automatically entitles them to kill another person ?

Then is it also acceptable for children to kill their parents who have abused them with beatings/starvation/molestation etc.?

I can think of very few instances that justify MURDER.

That would perhaps be in instances where every available effort had been made to permanently escape the abuser had been the person was still in danger.

Don't ever buy 'Doing It For The Kids'


You have got to be kidding? How did you ever get that I was saying that? If I am beating the hell out of you - you have a right to defend yourself - If, while you are defending yourself, I die, then you are guilty of MURDER?

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Goddess of Fairies
Member

Posts: 39
From:Marion, OH, USA
Registered: May 2001

posted June 01, 2001 01:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Goddess of Fairies     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well said JHA and thank you for having the courage to spell it out.

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MyKidsMom
Member

Posts: 33
From:Marion
Registered: Apr 2001

posted June 01, 2001 08:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyKidsMom   Click Here to Email MyKidsMom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with you JHA.

If the person is fighting back and happens to kill the person trying to defend themselves DURING AN ATTACK, that's not murder but self defense.

Now if they plan to kill them when the person is not expecting it and not during an attack, that is murder.

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Javier H Armengau
Member

Posts: 23
From:Ohio
Registered: May 2001

posted June 02, 2001 06:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Javier H Armengau   Click Here to Email Javier H Armengau     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MyKidsMom:
I agree with you JHA.

If the person is fighting back and happens to kill the person trying to defend themselves DURING AN ATTACK, that's not murder but self defense.

Now if they plan to kill them when the person is not expecting it and not during an attack, that is murder.


I agree. I would dread the thought if a person was being beaten and they had to avoid defending themselves out of fear that if they caused a serious injury or death they would face the potential of going to prison.

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karinna
New Member

Posts: 1
From:delaware
Registered: Jul 2002

posted July 21, 2002 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for karinna   Click Here to Email karinna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
UNREAL, i am new here so im not sure where this response is going, but i can not beleave some of the things im reading,i have been a batterd woman for 12 years i was with my husband the last 5 years i was beaten degrated the things i was dealing with were unreal, but i did leave took a long time yes, was i enabaler omg , no i was taken into the woods at 3 in the morning beat raped and degrated i was at home sleeping he would come in wake me by punching me in the face he would make me stand in the shower for 3 hours under hot water thinking the steam would help me lose weight i am 5\6 101 lbs i always have been small but not small enogh for him he was a wonderful man until the last 5 years thats why i couldnt leave he made me beleave i was nothing i was ugly he threatend my life by shootguns being held to my head and butcher knives to my neck and at axes so you tell me if i was owell you can do this to me because im letting you, do you honestly think anywoman or man wants this done to them if you do your sick and have no idea how it feels to be totaly powerless no idea, yes i did finaly get a backbone and leave and it took everything i had in me to stay gone its been a year and i still get sick to my stomach because i still fear for my life i still hear his voice i still wake up screaming when you dont feel you have anyone you stay with what is there i left him with everything its not about monies or material things it was about saving my life i am still building my life to where i can walk down the road with pride but sometimes i still feel like im nobody but each day is a challange and woman are worth it we are all worth it and no one deserves the hummiliatin and degration wich is put on to them by anyone, i hope for everyones sake they never have to deal with the hurt because this is something that doesnt go away this is with you forever. i pray for those who need the strenth to see them selves as worth something

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